A much ado about Amazon.com
As many already know, since February of this past year, the Humane Society of the United States has been "demanding" that Amazon.com remove books relating to dog and cock (roosters you pervert) fighting. A simple web search yields many results.
Various Links
Seattlepi.com (Feb 2007)
HSUS (Feb 2007)
Petitions Online (this is a site enabling folks to sign petitions online)
The Inquirer.net (not like the tabloid) (July 2006)
Assuming that by reading this you know that I am a vegan, it seems pretty obvious that I am going to talk all of you into boycotting amazon.com, signing a petition and bad mouthing them all over town.
Right?
Nope, its not that simple.
- I could purchase The Anarchists Cookbook. If I am not mistaken, this teaches you how to get high and make bombs out of house hold items.
- There is a wide selection of books on the KKK.
- This book talks about 9/11 and gives alternate theories on what really happened.
- A number of fiction and non-fiction books cover abortion.
- And finally, there are plenty on homosexuality.
Now, I have not read all of the books or suggestions above. Some of them I have no desire to read. I don't give a shit about the history of the KKK. Point is, Amazon.com has the right to sell what ever they want as along as it is not breaking the law. So they can't sell drugs (damn, I was looking for a good hook-up). I am pretty sure they couldn't ship weapons. I think you get the picture.
If Amazon was hosting dog fighting or cock fighting. That would be a whole different story. They are distributing information. Shit, if laws like this went so far, they could take away my blog.
The other big problem that I have with the argument that the HSUS is making, is that it is covering up a much bigger issue. If the HSUS is really an animal rights organization (which it's not), it would not only be after dog fighting, cock fighting and animal abuse, but it would be asking people to go vegan and explaining the effects of factory farming. It would take a stance against things like free-range and cage free. In short, it would grow some big, hairy balls (or ovaries for that matter).
HSUS will state that Amazon is not a proponent for free speech. They have pulled books of their shelves numerous times in the past. Again, that is their choice.
I believe that this case is completely out of line. Again, no one has to shop at Amazon.com. You have a choice. If you don't like what they stand for then don't shop there. Think about it before you jump on the "Down With Amazon" wagon. What if they took all blogs away? What if we weren't allowed to peacefully protest? What if I wasn't able to hand out vegan literature?
Use your brains. If you believe in free speech, you believe in it. That's the way it works. You can't decide who has freedom of speech and who doesn't. We all do.
Beautiful, isn't it?
6 comments:
Well I agree that HSUS should be promoting veganism.
However there is another problem with the animal fighting magazines--they have an extensive classified ad network through which illegal fights are advertised and promoted and through which fighting animals are sold, and where tapes/dvd of animal fights are also sold. So in that, the magazines do cross the line from offensive but free speech into an area where they are facilitating illegal activity.
I'm also really dissatisfied with the Amazon response. I wrote to them, because I've been a customer since they were tiny and I've directed friends and family to them, so I've been loyal to Amazon a long time. Anyway, I wrote a letter to them and got a form response. I wrote again to say that their form response really didn't have anything to do with what I wrote, and I got the same form response again. Since then I have deleted my wishlists and my "wedding registry." Ok, I'm already married and it's not a real registry, but since we never had a wedding anyway, I was putting household stuff or things both my husband and I wanted on that list, while my wishlist was mostly books and stuff just for me.
I won't shop with them again until they change their policy, though as you say, that's just my personal choice and my personal comfort level. But I see a clear distinction between the religious nuts who'd want them to get rid of books about homosexuality and animal people who want them to stop selling materials that help to organize and promote illegal animal fighting.
Of course, we do need to keep getting the message out to the public on why animal fighting is wrong. Because limiting where people can buy the magazines won't accomplish too much if there's still a huge market for it out there.
What neva vegan said... that's where i'm at...
The HSUS, the ASPCA, all these places need to start looking at the big picture.
amazon.com lost my biz years ago... but they're certainly not the only ones to blame.
It is my hope and wish that kids of today will see how wrong the abuse and exploitation of animals is and this kind of shit will be forever a bad memory.
Neva - I disagree. "they have an extensive classified ad network through which illegal fights are advertised and promoted and through which fighting animals are sold, and where tapes/dvd of animal fights are also sold. So in that, the magazines do cross the line from offensive but free speech into an area where they are facilitating illegal activity."
I feel if this were the case, no one would be able to by liquor or cigarettes. Because there is the possibility of that person giving the booze or smokes to a minor, they could be seen as facilitating illegal activity. What if u/c investigators were buying the magazines.
This also reminds me of Wal-Marts newest plan in tracking people who buy too many cell phones, propane tanks, or what ever. (And you always wondered why their prices were so low).
This comes down to personal responsibility. If people are fighting dogs or roosters, it isn't Amazon's fault, it isn't their parents fault, it isn't the systems fault. The person engaging in the fighting is the only one to blame.
I no longer shop at Amazon, just like I no longer shop at Wal-Mart or support the boy scouts. If more people would vote with their pocketbooks, lawsuits such as these would fuck with the system.
"I won't shop with them again until they change their policy, though as you say, that's just my personal choice and my personal comfort level. But I see a clear distinction between the religious nuts who'd want them to get rid of books about homosexuality and animal people who want them to stop selling materials that help to organize and promote illegal animal fighting."
You see this difference because you are an "animal person". To an outsider, I am pretty sure that we are seen as "animal nuts".
Thanks for your thoughts Drasch. I'm a little confused though, as you seem to reference a lawsuit. I didn't know there was any lawsuit involved, nor have I heard of one. Instead I was only informed of an effort to ask people to let Amazon know they are upset and to stop shopping with amazon until they stop selling these magazines.
I don't think it's comparable to liquor or cigarrete advertising, as those are general ads. But when the ads are essentially the lifeline of underground illegal fights, then that's a different issue to me. An ad for beer reaches people who can legally drink and thus has a legitimate purpose, even if it also reaches underage consumers. An ad for an animal fight or for videos of fights has only one purpose, and that purpose is illegal. There's no way to make that legitimate. And they aren't just promoting an illegal activity, the illegal activity could not take place without the ads and the people the ads bring in. Just like I can disapprove of porn, but it crosses a line if magazines have ads in them that facilitate actual illegal and exploitive activities, such as helping pedophiles get access to children and so on.
I don't doubt that many people would feel my stance on animal issues is extreme. But I'm not taking this stance because the invisible people in my head are telling me to do it, but because the harm inflicted on the animals in animal fights is real, measurable, easily observable, etc. That's not to say that I have anything against religious people in general, just those that go out of their way to persecute others.
In any case, mileage may vary. I haven't gone all out on my blog to tell people to boycott Amazon, because I believe that promoting veganism is the most important thing we should be doing. But that doesn't mean I'm going to shop with amazon any time soon.
Thank you for making us aware of this.
I have signed the petition and I have never ordered from Amazon.com because it's too complicated to order from Canada.
Now that I know this, I'm even happier that I have never odered from them. There are other places to order or buy books from! Stay away from this site...
How can such events be legal or are they?
If you don't mind, can I spread the word over on my blog? The more people know about it, the better it is.. I think...
By the way, there is no such thing as animal nuts... ;-)
Nutty people perhaps....
Good for you! It is really refreshing to read someone standing up for free speech or writing.
Like all bookshops Amazon will stock what people order...if they acted as a censor then would there be any books left to buy, and most books will offend someone?
As a famous UK politician once said "I may not agree with you, but I will fight for your right to say it!"
PS I don't agree with bloodsports and hunting magazines either.
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